#CSH Episode 11:

⏱️ Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Botox and burnout in CS

00:03:24 - Personalization vs. product-led growth

00:04:03 - Losing the human touch in PLG

00:06:07 - Segmentation and scalable white glove

00:07:37 - Using product data for personalization

00:09:07 - Internal workflows vs. customer behavior

00:10:47 - Low-budget ways to personalize onboarding

00:11:46 - Collaborating with customers on design

00:12:42 - Scaling support without losing CSAT

00:14:12 - Categorizing tickets to find the root cause

00:17:05 - AI and documentation to reduce burnout

00:20:23 - Socializing support data with leadership

📺 Lifetime Value: Your Destination for GTM content

https://www.lifetimevaluemedia.com

💁‍♀️💁‍♂️ Connect with the hosts:

Kristi Faltorusso's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristiserrano/

Kristi's website: https://www.kristifaltorusso.com/

Stijn "Stino" Smet's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stijn-smet-%F0%9F%90%B3-330435a9/

Key topics: artificial intelligence, personalization, customer support

[Kristi] (0:04 - 0:20)

There are things that you should absolutely feel empowered to digitize. You don't need to do all the work, but you also shouldn't be abandoning the importance of relationships and connection and discovery with your customers. And you just can't, you can't automate that.

[Stino] (0:32 - 0:54)

Hi, welcome back everyone. And welcome to a new season of the Customer Success Hotline. We are back.

We took some time to get some fresh Botox. I got engaged. Actually, I'm getting married in two days.

But we found the time to schedule in the first episode of season two. Hi, Kristi.

[Kristi] (0:55 - 1:13)

Hello, my love. Oh my gosh. Yeah, we have done a lot since we recorded last.

Your little butt has been running all over the place, racking up miles. So proud of you. You've taken the stage at a bunch of different events.

You went and got engaged. You came to the States. You have been doing some stuff, my friend.

[Stino] (1:13 - 1:22)

We got some brunch two months ago. I'm like, time is moving so fast. Still dreaming about that mac and cheese though.

[Kristi] (1:22 - 1:30)

That was delicious. I really hate that you're so far away. I really need to transplant you here a little bit closer.

Or even in a better time zone would be ideal.

[Stino] (1:31 - 1:32)

Well, but that's the thing though.

[Kristi] (1:33 - 1:50)

You wake up at like 2 a.m. Yeah, but so the good thing is that like, because I don't sleep, we get to have our morning chats. So it's fine. My workout buddy who comes over to my home at 4.45 in the morning every day to work out. She's always like, who are you texting at this hour? I'm like, you know, my boy.

[Stino] (1:51 - 2:02)

That's early. I need to tell you though. Since I got Botox, I'm so self-aware about the vein popping up when I'm laughing.

I'm like, let me get another shot because this needs to be speedy.

[Kristi] (2:02 - 2:27)

No, okay. So like there is something like all of this stuff can become addictive, my friend. So we're going to take it easy.

Let it settle. You're going to be fine. No, no, no.

You got to ignore it for now. Come back. That's how you like.

I love a fresh tox. I love like my first two weeks after when it's all settled in and you can't move anything. And it's like, I'm like shiny and glowy.

[Stino] (2:27 - 2:30)

It's only the right brow that's now like just itching.

[Kristi] (2:31 - 2:41)

Yeah, my guy leaves me with some flexibility. I told him I was like, listen, I got to make facial expressions. I have a lot of things my face needs to say.

You cannot prevent it. It's like taping my mouth shut.

[Stino] (2:41 - 2:49)

But that is a thing though. We have a lot to say because customer success just makes us do Botox. Like an eight-year-old.

[Kristi] (2:49 - 3:24)

Honestly, it should be something that our employers should have to give us. True. Because of the stress that the work puts on our face.

So I feel like it should just be covered. So if you work in HR, this is a really strong recommendation. That if you want to think about an employee benefit that might go a long way.

Maybe partner up with some med spas and you take care of your friends in customer success. Because we would like some facials, some talks, some stuff. So let's keep us glowy so we can smile a little easier.

[Stino] (3:24 - 4:01)

I love that because the next topic is literally going to break my Botox. We got a couple of questions since we last recorded. And it has everything to do with how to personalize in a product-led world.

I think that last year has literally taken the scenery by storm. And it's like the scaling and product-led growth. I'm going to read a question from Sarah.

She says, hi, Stino and Kristi. Hi, Sarah. We've been leaning hard into PLG.

But I'm worried about losing that personal touch with our biggest customers. How do you keep things personal without scaling yourself into the ground?

[Kristi] (4:03 - 4:43)

This is a good one. I'm curious in your thoughts here. Because I do think, and I hate to say it, but it depends, right?

Like if you are thinking about your biggest customers, are you not having any human engagement any longer? To what extent are we swinging the pendulum so far in the other direction that we're not... There are things that you should absolutely feel empowered to digitize.

You don't need to do all the work. But you also shouldn't be abandoning the importance of relationships and connection and discovery with your customers. And you just can't automate that.

So that's where my head goes first. Is like, have we completely abandoned that motion?

[Stino] (4:43 - 6:07)

But that's the thing, though. I have the feeling that we, as customer success, are always scared all the time. The moment something new pops up, and it's the same as a discussion that we had regarding AI, that something pops up, we don't know what it is, and we jump on it like there is no tomorrow.

Half first, no plan, no structure or realization. Like, okay, let me take a step back and see what I can do. And I think the same happens with PLG.

I can talk for myself as well. Like with Whale, it was the first time that I worked for a company that did not solely PLG, but 80% of our revenue was coming from PLG, and 20% was directed from sales. Still is.

So in that sense, I was heavily focused on indeed figuring out on how I need to automate everything for that segment. You need to indeed find balance on the scale, because I think it's a question regarding how to segment your customers, right? If it's the smallest batch, of course you can automate everything and build playbooks and have webinars and have everything in these big groups.

But if it's all your biggest customers, there is nothing wrong with still doing white gloves, yes. Yeah. Having a relationship with your customers.

I don't think I would call myself a customer success manager if I have no contact with my customers.

[Kristi] (6:07 - 7:37)

No, I feel like then you'd be a marketer. You'd be marketing ops. To me, if you fully abandon that, that's what it comes to.

But let's go back to Sarah's question, because she did ask about the personalization. So Sarah, thanks for bearing with us. I think when we think about the personalization, for me, it comes down to the data, because in order for it to be a personalized experience, you have to have enough context.

Now, I don't mean name, last name, email, company name. That's not what I'm talking about. But the context about your customer that says, here's what their goals are.

Here's what they purchased. Here's where their targeted use cases were. Here are the things that are unique about them.

Because when you have that context and you're structuring that data in a way that you can use it, you can start to automate and scale different initiatives and connections with your customers around that. And it feels more personalized, right? So if I know my customers' use cases, and I can tell based on how they're using the product if they are or are not getting what they need from it, I can personalize connections based on that.

Because I know that A and B don't equal C in this case, right? So obviously, there might be a point for intervention. Maybe I have to send them some guides, some information.

Maybe they would benefit from a conversation. And so that's a good opportunity for me to use the data to intervene. So I think, for me, it comes down to having the right information in a structured way that we can use it to inform our teams and communicate effectively with our customers.

Yeah.

[Stino] (7:37 - 9:06)

And to do that personalization further than the first name and last name and the company name and stuff like that, I think it also comes down to great collaboration with product. Because product-led growth means that everything needs to come from the product. So it also starts already with a very solid sign-up flow.

Meaning if you want to have all that personalized data, you want to know what that person's role is. Maybe you also want to know, indeed, those use cases. And that's often something that is in the sign-up flow.

If you're allowing your users or potential users or potential clients to sign up for your product with just your email address and nothing else, you can't personalize in the first place. So it also already starts with a good collaboration with product on what data you need from the sign-up flow. You need to limit the friction on how to get to your product.

But I think the high-level stuff, like the role that they play within their company, what their use case is, indeed. Your solution or your company covers a couple of problems that they want to fix. Make sure that they can highlight like, hey, this is something that I want to try out with your product.

For example, for Will, it will be creating documentation or training your team. I'm not going to send training material to someone who wants to document their processes. So I think it also already starts there to have somewhat of insights, indeed, on your data.

Because if you don't have that, I think you can't even start by doing anything.

[Kristi] (9:07 - 10:47)

I think you're spot on, right? So it's absolutely what we're collecting, when we're collecting it, where are we storing it, what are we doing with it? Something else that I see that there seems to be a big disconnect on is that a lot of teams are designing for their internal flows.

So it's like, okay, well, we did this thing and then we do this other thing and then we do this other thing. And they're not waiting for the customer to do the things on their end and using their information and their actions to actually drive that. So I also think that if you're going to use technology to do this, you have to have the right tech stack to power it where it can be very logic-driven, right?

Like being able to analyze things. And so there is a level of complexity that comes into play there because there's so many branches off of anything, right? Like if you think about the way anything is built out, there's so many different scenarios that you need to consider in order for it to feel personalized.

So for me, it's like, do you even have the right systems in place? If you have all the right data, great. If you're getting all the right insights from product, great.

If you understand milestones and all of that, great. And then you know what information or actions you're looking for. Okay, cool.

But now how are you going to power that? This is where I also feel like some processes become a little broken because the technology they have can't really power what they want. And I get it.

There's crawl, walk, runs. You got to start somewhere. So sometimes it's just, yes, we're pushing certain communication at a certain time.

But if you're really abandoning having any connection with your customers and you're not engaging with them at all, then think about it. You probably aren't having to hire as many people. Make an investment in the right technology then.

So if you're going to abandon people, technology may be a little bit cheaper. Make sure that you're getting the right solution in place.

[Stino] (10:47 - 11:45)

Yeah, 100%. If you don't have the budget, for example, if you're working at a scrappy startup, just start by sending out a little survey. If you're a G Suite or a Microsoft company, you have access to making forms or making surveys.

Make the first step of your automated playbook a little survey. Like, hey, that's something that we did at Will as well recently where we were like, okay, you start it or you want to know more about X or you want to know more about Y, Z, whatever. If you don't fill in the survey, you will just get the general onboarding.

That also allows you to build different learning tracks without having a budget or a fancy tool or anything else in between. So in that sense, personalization really starts at the very beginning. Sarah, if you're thinking about like, okay, how to keep things personal, really start at the top of the funnel because it's not a superhero syndrome that we need to fix.

It's literally a problem that you need to fix together by product.

[Kristi] (11:46 - 12:42)

I think the last thing I'll contribute to this on is the collaboration with your customers. Right? Don't be afraid to, as you're building something out, pull your customers into it, right?

Find some of those friendly customers and ask for feedback on it and say, hey, here's what we're designing and here's how we're thinking about this. Can I walk you through it? Or can you be a part of this program and give me some feedback?

I think that level of collaboration is sometimes lost on us as well. There is a handful of customers that want to be part of building something with you. The appeal, especially if you're an earlier stage company, they're taking a bet on you and they also want to feel like you're designing with them, not just for them.

So pull them in, right? Get the feedback and see what do they feel the experience should be and how do they want to receive things and what's the appropriate message. I feel like when you do that, you're usually going to be designing something that's better anyway, because you're hearing directly from them what they need and want.

[Stino] (12:42 - 12:52)

Yeah. No, 100%. And that really ties in into a question from Mike.

Oh, it's starting. It's so funny. Yo, Kristi, what up?

[Kristi] (12:54 - 12:56)

Yo, what up, Mike?

[Stino] (12:56 - 13:09)

Yo, Mike. We just crossed the 10,000 user mark, but I feel like we're drowning in support tickets and our CSAT scores are tanking. How do we keep our customers happy without burning out our team?

[Kristi] (13:11 - 13:12)

Support is so tricky.

[Stino] (13:13 - 13:15)

Yo, Kristi, answer that one.

[Kristi] (13:15 - 13:27)

Yo, Mike, here we go. Okay, so here's my thoughts on this, because this is so multifaceted and we can take this, like I literally can spend an hour on just this question because there's so many, this thing has legs, okay?

[Stino] (13:27 - 13:27)

Yeah.

[Kristi] (13:27 - 14:09)

The first thing I'm going to say is like, if you have a huge influx of tickets coming into support, you need to analyze that first. You need to start breaking it down to see what is coming in and why, what is going on? You have to understand, are these product-related things?

And then if they are, to what part of your product? You need to start mapping them out. Is this an education thing?

Are these people asking questions that they don't know how to do certain things? So then is it an enablement thing? Is there a documentation gap?

Should certain things be in your knowledge base that aren't? This is a great way to go ahead and go create articles. This is what I love Scribe for.

So if you guys are not familiar with Scribe, we'll automate all of the content creation for your knowledge base.

[Stino] (14:09 - 14:10)

You should try Whale.

[Kristi] (14:12 - 17:04)

Or Whale. There's all these things out there that I think you need to consider before you do this because you're not throwing bodies at the problem. If you're finding that there's a ton of product issues, this is a great way for you to collaborate with product and starting there.

And that's why I always name that as the first category breakdown. Because if it's a UI thing and people just can't find what they're doing or if there are bugs in your product, if there are huge product gaps, support to me should be a lifeline to product, right? This is the life support.

If your customers are not able to use your product, you got to figure that out. You got to build that out. So for me, that's my first thing is the categorization of all of your tickets, understanding what are the themes and what are the buckets and then start to solve for what you're seeing there.

Now, of course, if there's still a huge influx of tickets and you've kind of solved for all that, maybe it's just a volume because you've got all these cool customers coming in and they're using your product. Don't forget, support tickets is not a bad thing necessarily. If your customers are using your product, good for you.

A quiet cue is not a good cue. To me, a quiet cue says nobody's using your shit. Like that's concerning.

So if they're using it, great. But now you're also going to figure out, should I be doing webinars, right? Should we be doing office hours?

Should we be like, there's so many cool things that you can do from that. And it doesn't necessarily need to be a one-to-one solution. And you don't necessarily need more support reps.

We've done support office hours in the past where people can come in and ask questions that they have. And our support agents get on the call and they sit there for a couple hours and people hop in and they hop out. And it's just a Zoom that's live for this duration of time.

They can ask questions, get things clarified, follow up on stuff. And it's a great way for your customers to feel like they have direct access. Now, we talked about a lot of things that require human capital and resourcing and some ideation and maybe even creation.

But I will say, listen, we cannot underestimate the power of AI in support. Customer experience AI-driven technology is some of the most cutting-edge technology I've seen. I attended a conference in June last year, CCW, and it's customer contact week.

Let me just tell you, this is like Microsoft, this is like Adobe. These are like these huge organizations where we're talking about millions of things coming in. The innovation around how they are solving for customer experience-related things like call center, tickets, things like that, that technology stack is so impressive.

It is so crazy. And there are things out there that are more affordable and easy and still super innovative and really cool. And I'm sure even if you look at the tech stack you have today, they are probably innovating in those areas.

As much as I don't want to spend hours talking to a chatbot, so design it correctly, but there's probably a lot you can do there as well.

[Stino] (17:05 - 19:16)

Yeah, no, 100%. And I want to take on the CSATs course, art banking. I do get it.

If you have a huge influx of tickets, people want to just get rid of them as fast as they can. But that's the thing though. The experience needs to be on par as well, regardless of how many tickets that you have.

So also there, I think that would then be more of a documentation gap, like you mentioned, because if there are indeed repetitive questions, every support tool or ticketing system that I've used in the past as well allows you to create canned responses. So just already start creating them. If you always need to start from scratch, then you will burn out your team.

But if you need to have repetitive questions, especially in a product-led world like journal is inevitable. So in that sense, if I look at Will as well, sometimes if they're just testing out our product and they're still in the free version, they also sometimes want to cancel it, right? So we get a lot of questions on how to cancel your subscription.

Okay. We have AI, they propose the article, but nowadays sometimes people don't want to talk to a bot. So even if the bot gives the right answer, they want to talk to a human.

But if you're then still not owning it, but like replying it from scratch, that will burn out your team. So also if there are half-canned responses, because if I need to explain something from scratch for the fourth time, my Botox will break. And then indeed the CSAT is going to tank.

So in that sense, you need to support your team as well with already the availabilities that you have in your tool, like a Zendesk, like a Freshworks, like a Intercom. They all already have the possibility to have canned responses. Also there, just don't search it too far.

Stick to the tools that you already have as well. Because like you mentioned, all of those tools are also jumping on the AI bandwagon. So if you have everything documented, whether you do that with Skype, whether you do that with Will, you have the possibility to do so.

So please do.

[Kristi] (19:17 - 19:59)

Yeah. I mean, and that's such a valid point, right? Like I think we underestimate the power of the basic workflows that these tools offer.

You know, listen, I don't have a fancy schmancy tech stack. And so my team is having to do a lot, but we do have like automations, right? The minute a ticket is submitted, there is a response, right?

There is a response when a ticket has been not responded to by the customer, right? We provide a response, but now it's 48 hours since the customer has acknowledged our question, right? So there's like a little automation tickle that goes out.

So there are things that you can do that are just basic functionality on every single support ticketing technology. These are basic things, standard, that you should and could be taking advantage of.

[Stino] (20:00 - 20:22)

Yeah, no, 100%. So for like the influx and the CSAT, try to automate as much as you can without losing that personal touch. Like it is not losing a personal touch when someone is sending out a kind of response and just having already a foundation to adapt it.

So in that sense, I would say congratulations on hitting that 10,000 Tuesday mark. Okay.

[Kristi] (20:23 - 21:18)

I thought I'd be done. One more thing I'm going to tell you, Mike, we gave you a lot of tactical advice on how to solve for what's in front of you. But the reality is if this influx is continuing to increase, right?

You're going to brand more users. That's all great problems. Make sure that your executive leadership team is seeing this as well and let them know what you're doing, but also let them know when there's a break point because maybe there is a point where you do need more headcount, more technology, more budget, more resourcing, right?

Like there could also be a point where we have exhausted everything that we can do with the resources we have in front of us. These are good problems to have, but now we need to revisit. But you're not going to be able to get what you need if you're not putting data in front of the right people.

So my last point to you, Mike, is make sure that you're socializing all the things that you're seeing at a high enough level to support what you need to be successful.

[Stino] (21:20 - 21:46)

Yeah, 100%. Yo, Mike, I hope we answered your question. And that concludes the first episode of the second season of the Customer Success Hotline.

Yay, we did it! We did it, we're back. Keep sending out your questions.

We love them. We can't wait to pick up the phone again for a second episode of season two of the Customer Success Hotline.

[VO] (21:55 - 22:14)

You've been listening to the Customer Success Hotline produced by Lifetime Value Media and a member of the Lifetime Value Media Network. Visit the show at lifetimevalue.link slash CSH for links to each episode, show notes and instructions on how to submit your burning questions.