#TDSU Episode 267:

⏱️ Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Intro

00:02:24 - Traits in CS leadership

00:03:30 - Green flags in leaders

00:05:50 - The value of humility

00:06:46 - Realistic goals over lofty dreams

00:09:00 - Astrology and work life

00:11:08 - Rule number six revealed

00:11:41 - The power of taking PTO

00:12:48 - The ulterior motive unveiled

📺 Lifetime Value: Your Destination for GTM content

Website: https://www.lifetimevaluemedia.com

🤝 Connect with the hosts:

Dillon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dillonryoung

JP's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanpierrefrost/

Rob's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-zambito/

👋 Connect with Laura Condy:

Laura's LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/laura-condy

[Laura] (0:00 - 0:11)

What you are saying was actually the ulterior motive of this entire facilitated fun task is to prove the point that everyone wants something different.

[Dillon] (0:11 - 0:14)

Well, it just makes me look like a piece of sh**, Laura.

[Laura] (0:19 - 0:21)

Oh, that was not my intention!

[Dillon] (0:30 - 0:41)

What's up, Lifers, and welcome to The Daily Standup with Lifetime Value, where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I got my man, JP with us. JP, do you want to say hi?

[JP] (0:42 - 0:44)

Hey, what's going on? Hey.

[Dillon] (0:45 - 0:59)

And we've got Rob with us. Rob, can you say hi, please? What's up, super fans?

You're supposed to go super hood, Rob. That was your opportunity and you failed. Yeah.

And we have Laura with us. Laura, can you say hi, please?

[Laura] (0:59 - 1:02)

What's up, success t-shirt models?

[Dillon] (1:03 - 1:07)

And I am your host. My name is Dillon Young. Laura, thank you so much for being here.

Can you please introduce yourself?

[Laura] (1:08 - 1:23)

Yeah, I'm Laura from Southern California, customer success and experience professional. Been in the game for about six years, specifically in onboarding, adoption, support, and enablement, and self-proclaimed Daily Stand-Up number one fan.

[Rob] (1:24 - 1:27)

I love it. We might have a little competition, Laura, but...

[Laura] (1:27 - 1:29)

Show them to me!

[JP] (1:29 - 1:37)

I will find them! Let the games begin.

[Dillon] (1:38 - 1:46)

Laura, you do know what we do here. Do you want to say it? Prove you're a super fandom.

What do we do here?

[Laura] (1:46 - 1:49)

We... Hang on.

[Dillon] (1:52 - 1:54)

We're bringing you...

[Laura] (1:54 - 2:19)

Bring on one guest and we ask them one question. What is on your mind? When it comes to customer success.

So gentlemen, what is on my mind when it comes to customer success? You guys have had a lot of really cool guests lately talking about this. My topic is traits in CS leadership and what we want to see in CS leadership.

Are you ready for that? I don't care.

[Dillon] (2:19 - 2:23)

Green flags, not red flags. Green flags. All right, cool.

[Laura] (2:24 - 3:27)

So gentlemen, I've previously been on the job market for a few months now. This is something that I am always sussing out and trying to be mindful of in interviews because the job and the role in the company could be awesome for me, but it is really a deal maker or a deal breaker, depending on who my leader is and who I report to. Incoming, discouraging, anecdotal statistic.

You ready for this? When I've been interviewing in roles for the past few months, I've been always asking the question, what is a trait that you look for in your leaders? And what is a trait that you strive to bring in your own leadership?

About 50% of the people that I asked that question to struggled to come up with an answer. So what I'm going to do today is we are going to discuss what we want to see in CS leaders, and we are going to give that 50% some answers that they can use. Are you ready?

[Dillon] (3:27 - 3:30)

Let's do it. Okay, go ahead. Green flag number one.

[Laura] (3:30 - 3:54)

Okay, so we're going to go around round robin style. Everyone's going to say a trait that they want. Two rules, no repeats.

So if I say something, you can't repeat it. And then the other rule is the third one has to be a fun trait. Like they like the same sports team that I do, or like they do something embarrassing when their team wins or something.

[Dillon] (3:55 - 3:56)

All right, so we need to come up with three.

[Laura] (3:57 - 4:49)

Okay, do you do you want to reschedule for another time? All right, I'm gonna kick us off and then we'll go alphabetical order. All right, Dillon, you're ready on deck.

All right, the first traits that I am thinking of is they got to remember the team that they are working for. Obviously, CS leaders are going to have to collaborate and work along other departments, but they can't let that collaboration or compromise override the needs and the goals of the team that reports to them. If a CS leader is like playing too nice or trying to appease other departments, whether it's like sales or product, it's going to come at a cost to their own team and it's going to backfire and they're going to have a lot of unhappy staff.

It's my first trait.

[Dillon] (4:52 - 5:16)

I would say they have to be able to have a deep conversation about the true differences between customer success and sales, regardless of whether CS sits under the CRO and is effectively another appendage of the revenue organization.

[Rob] (5:17 - 5:25)

So, I'm thinking of recent good leaders that I've worked with and I was thinking about a friend of the show, Alex Turkovich, because Alex is a great leader.

[JP] (5:25 - 5:27)

He's a great leader. Turkey, what's up, boy?

[Rob] (5:28 - 5:49)

Yeah, shout out to Alex. And I think like really, honestly, the principle, you can call it like humility, you can call it like listening skills and sometimes it boils down to just as simple as not being an a-hole. I bleeped myself there.

I think Alex is just, he's just so good at like putting you first and he just listens. He takes a back seat, which is really fantastic.

[Laura] (5:50 - 5:51)

I love it. Subscribe.

[JP] (5:52 - 5:56)

Realistic expectations. That's a good one. Boom.

[Laura] (5:56 - 6:44)

Mic drop. Round two. So, something I've been noticing and thinking about a lot is this millennial trend of leaders that are like anti-micro managers and having this attitude of, I trust you.

I'm not going to micromanage you. I'm your cool boss. To the point where they're almost like avoidant and have no real eyes on what I'm doing day to day.

So, when it comes time to do a performance review, they are struggling to come up with any sort of reflection about me. So, I think I'd rather, if I have a millennial manager, which I'm a millennial too, I'm not knocking the generation, I'd want them to be way more hands-on and know about me than totally avoidant and just blindly trust me.

[Dillon] (6:46 - 7:16)

It's interesting. I love what JP said. Not that I didn't love everything else, but JP, I thought it was interesting.

Realistic expectations. I think I want to piggyback off of that and talk about realistic goals and setting goals that don't demoralize your team or that don't make it clear that you don't know how customer success operates. I'll leave it there.

Go ahead, Rob.

[Rob] (7:17 - 7:20)

How about charisma? Oh! I think that's underrated.

[JP] (7:22 - 7:24)

That's why you just want to...

[Rob] (7:24 - 8:11)

How do you do, fellow kids? No, that's not why I said it. There are interesting generational shifts that I've been researching between...

Now, generations are somewhat arbitrarily defined, but I'll save that for another episode, part three with Laura. Regardless, I think charisma matters a ton. I don't want to report to some wet noodle.

I don't really want to report to anybody right now. I get to report to myself, but even I have to hype myself up in the morning. My best times are where I know the leader believes in what we're doing.

But is that charisma? Well, I think charisma emanates from a belief in... Riz.

I think charisma... I think when you get to the root of charisma, there's some connection to the mission of what you're doing, typically. Okay.

[Laura] (8:12 - 8:13)

Let's just let Dillon sit and...

[Rob] (8:13 - 8:15)

Leading and lagging indicators, man.

[Laura] (8:15 - 8:17)

JP! Go ahead, JP.

[JP] (8:18 - 8:30)

Yeah, and someone who can connect what we're doing to the vision that we have. Someone that helps me to understand the importance behind the things that they're asking.

[Laura] (8:31 - 8:55)

Yeah. All right. Love it.

Round three. Don't forget, round three is supposed to be the fun one. So bring the fun trait that you want to see in a CS leader.

My fun trait, Dillon is going to kill me. They have to have a respect for or at least entertain me talking about the power of astrology in my work life.

[Dillon] (8:56 - 8:58)

Hell yeah. I love that for you.

[Laura] (9:00 - 9:07)

Astrology is not a framework for who you are and how you exist in the world.

[Dillon] (9:09 - 9:14)

It's an obtuse... Happy spring, airy season.

[Laura] (9:15 - 9:20)

Send me your birth times. I'll do your chart. I'll set you all up.

I already did Rob's.

[Dillon] (9:20 - 9:21)

Hell yeah. Do your chart.

[JP] (9:21 - 9:23)

I already know my chart and information.

[Laura] (9:23 - 9:25)

Okay. All right, Dillon.

[Dillon] (9:28 - 9:29)

I protest.

[Laura] (9:30 - 9:34)

What a shock that you have a hard time coming up with a fun trait for someone.

[Dillon] (9:35 - 10:01)

Look, so you know that I don't believe in work necessarily being fun. Does it grease the wheels? Totally.

But I will say, I don't think we're in a job market where employees can demand whether they have fun with their employer or not, with their boss. Or not. I principally disagree with the idea.

That's all.

[Laura] (10:01 - 10:12)

I kind of agree that it's hard to imagine fun in a capitalist society. I mean, if they want to come to us.

[Rob] (10:12 - 10:18)

If that's your DLDR. In Soviet Russia, we have fun.

[Laura] (10:19 - 10:20)

Rob, give us some fun.

[Rob] (10:21 - 11:06)

All right, here's a fun one. Rule number six. What is rule number six?

You guys don't know rule number six. There's a story, really quick story, a parable that I read once. JP is rolling his eyes.

It's about this diplomat who goes to this country and he has people coming in meeting him. People are really upset, right? First person comes in really upset.

They leave totally calm. Second person comes in totally upset. They leave really calm.

And then so someone who's observing this goes to the diplomat and is like, what is happening here that you're just resolving these complex situations in an instant? And he's like, rule number six. And the guy's like, what is rule number six?

He's like, it's don't take yourself so goddamn seriously.

[Laura] (11:07 - 11:07)

Preach.

[Rob] (11:08 - 11:19)

And then the person says, so what are the other rules? And he's like, there aren't any. And so I talk about rule number six often because like, honestly, the fun quality that a leader should have is fun.

[Laura] (11:21 - 11:25)

Not taking yourself so seriously is probably what makes this podcast successful.

[Rob] (11:25 - 11:27)

Agreed. Exactly.

[JP] (11:28 - 11:31)

Someone who encouraged you to take your PTO.

[Rob] (11:33 - 11:35)

That's a good one. That's a really good one.

[JP] (11:36 - 11:37)

There we go.

[Rob] (11:38 - 11:39)

That's a really good one.

[Laura] (11:39 - 11:39)

All right.

[JP] (11:41 - 11:41)

It's a Rizak.

[Laura] (11:42 - 11:45)

He's my fun facilitation activity, Dillon, back to you.

[Laura] (11:50 - 11:52)

All right, Laura, that is our time.

[Dillon] (11:54 - 12:47)

Laura, that is our time. I'll give you an opportunity to come back and redeem yourself. Here's what I think is interesting about all of this.

What I want the audience to take away from this is how important it is for you to get clear on what you want in a leader. And it's why, as an easy example, Rob, I disagree with every one of your rules, but it's because of how I work, not because I think you're wrong. And so you disagree that Alex is a good leader.

All right, I'll let him know. No, I disagree about why he's a good leader. Actually, that's the one I kind of agree with.

But Charisma, I just don't think I agree with your definition of it. And fun is totally up for interpretation. What does that mean for one person versus another person?

Let's do a fun one.

[Laura] (12:48 - 12:59)

Dillon, what you are saying was actually the ulterior motive of this entire facilitated fun task is to prove the point that everyone wants something different.

[Dillon] (13:00 - 13:03)

Well, it just makes me look like a piece of s***, Laura.

[Laura] (13:07 - 13:10)

Oh, that was not my intention.

[Dillon] (13:10 - 13:14)

Lucky for you guys, I control the entire outcome of this.

[Laura] (13:14 - 13:15)

Love you.

[Dillon] (13:15 - 13:22)

Thank you. For coming and commandeering this entire episode. Come back soon.

Make it a three time.

[Laura] (13:22 - 13:23)

You know it.

[Dillon] (13:23 - 13:26)

Try to take the belt because you know who has it right now.

[Laura] (13:27 - 13:27)

Who?

[Dillon] (13:27 - 13:29)

Is Alex, Turkey Turkovich.

[Laura] (13:30 - 13:30)

Turkey!

[Dillon] (13:31 - 13:32)

So.

[Laura] (13:32 - 13:33)

I'm going to dox him.

[Dillon] (13:33 - 13:36)

See what you can do. I'm going to dox him. Goodness gracious.

[Laura] (13:37 - 13:39)

All right. Goodbye. Bye.

[VO] (13:40 - 14:22)

You've been listening to The Daily Standup by Lifetime Value. Please note that the views expressed in these conversations are attributed only to those individuals on this recording and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of their respective employers. For all general inquiries, please reach out via email to hello at lifetimevaluemedia.com.

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